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chepug
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - 10/16/2009 : 11:08:22 AM
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I swapped my Sunbeam mixer for my mother's K5SS KitchenAid mixer since she stopped making bread and I wanted to move beyond my bread machine. I had no problem using the mixer or whip. However, my first attempt to make bread with the hook left me in tears on the phone with my mother never having had my problem. So, here's my problem.
I bake with whole wheat, rye, bran flours. I followed the directions on how to mix the ingredients, but the dough hook never kneaded the dough. It just left a nice indentation in the middle of the bowl. I'd say it was the opposite problem of the dough rising on the hook. I kept having to stop the mixer and, using a spatula, push the dough into the hook. I read somewhere that as long as the hook was touching the dough, it was kneading, but in my case the hook didn't even do that. What am I doing wrong? |
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vernonbishop12
USA
1886 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2009 : 6:03:04 PM
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I think your beater height is off and needs to be adjusted... 
I don't know if there's another solution and if someone else wants to chime in, please do!! 
Again, I'm sorry that you're having problems with your mixer!!! 
Welcome to the forum, and I hope we can find a solution for you, and make it better!! 
Vernon
KSM50HDPBK Heavy Duty Plus, Imperial Black, Burnished Beater, Dough Hook; KFP715 7 cup Food Processor, Onyx Black; KSC700 7 qt slow cooker, Onyx Black...
K. Ross Toole hard at work!! 
for the way its made!
from a lifelong true KitchenAid lover 
vernonbishop12 |
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KitchenAidQuinn
1065 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 6:39:04 PM
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I'm really sorry to hear that you were discouraged with your bread, chepug! Don't despair! Keep trying. Whole wheat flours will not form as cohesive of a ball on the dough hook as white flour will, but it should still at least come together on the hook. I would suggest maybe trying the basic white bread recipe in the manual, to get a feel for how the white flour does in the mixer. If it comes together well, it could just be your whole wheat flour that's the issue. You may need to play around with the amounts (keep adding flour bit by bit) until you can get it to form more of a ball on the hook. Good luck!
KitchenAid Quinn |
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Nutritionist
USA
1984 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2009 : 7:14:48 PM
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chepug, it sounds to me like the dough needed a little more flour.
I mainly use whole grains. Something I found that helped when I started using a mixer for whole-grain breads is to mix the ingredients together just enough to get everything moist. Then, let the mixture stand in the mixer bowl for 30 minutes. Don't worry about kneading it at this point. The standing time gives the whole grain time to absorb the liquid. (The fermentation that begins to take place during the standing time also helps develop the gluten, so you have a head start when you actually begin to knead the dough.)
After the standing time, you can go ahead and 'tweak' the amount of flour needed to make the dough. Just add a small amount at a time, give the mixer time to mix that flour into the dough and if the dough doesn't come together to form a ball that the mixer can knead, add a little more flour.
I ignore the recommended kneading times. I stop the mixer from time to time and feel the dough. When it passes the windowpane test, I know it's been kneaded long enough.
Here's one place on the forum where the windowpane test is explained:
http://forum.kitchenaid.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17862
If you use the search feature on the forum and type "windowpane" into the search field, you'll find several other posts describing the windowpane test.
Bonnie
"Leave your drugs in the chemist's pot if you can heal the patient with food."
~ Hippocrates, The Father of Western Medicine, 460 BCE. |
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vernonbishop12
USA
1886 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2009 : 5:47:41 PM
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Thanks for posting different solutions to this problem!!
I learned a lot from the posts you posted!!
Vernon
KSM50HDPBK Heavy Duty Plus, Imperial Black, Burnished Beater, Dough Hook; KFP715 7 cup Food Processor, Onyx Black; KSC700 7 qt slow cooker, Onyx Black...
K. Ross Toole hard at work!!
for the way its made!
from a lifelong true KitchenAid lover
vernonbishop12 |
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chepug
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 12:59:07 PM
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| Thanks so much for your help in word and film. I'm going to try again this week. I'll never pooh-pooh blogging again either! This is an experience in itself! Thanks again! |
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Nutritionist
USA
1984 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2009 : 9:21:47 PM
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Good for you, chepug! Definitely try again! And let us know how it goes. Don't give up. You'll get it all figured out. 
Bonnie
"Leave your drugs in the chemist's pot if you can heal the patient with food."
~ Hippocrates, The Father of Western Medicine, 460 BCE. |
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chepug
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2009 : 1:09:21 PM
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Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I can't believe 2 months have gone by since I last tried to make a bread, but yesterday I tried again. I watched your video again and I used your recipe for whole wheat bread. I also followed your recommendation to let the ingredients sit for 30 minutes before kneading. Whatever it was, this time it worked! I had to add a little more water than your recipe calls for, but I think that was because I used more gluten. In any case, I got a nicely kneaded ball of dough. And the bread turned out delicious. I may need to turn down the heat a bit and bake it longer since my husband told me this morning that the center was still "wet"; he just toasted his slices, but he loved it!
Here is something I tried that helped me. We keep our household thermostat at 66 degrees (too cool for rising) and the lowest temp in my oven registers 130 degrees (too warm). So I placed a heating pad on low heat in a bowl and put the mixing bowl with the dough on the heating pad. It rose nicely and cut the time from your recipe in half; that was not my intention, but it seemed to do the trick.
Thanks again.
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cooknupastorm
USA
2055 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2009 : 7:31:49 PM
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| So glad to hear you finally had success, chepug!!!! Keep it up and have fun!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Nutritionist
USA
1984 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2009 : 7:39:34 PM
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That's wonderful news, chepug! Glad to hear it!!!
Regarding the house temperature - here's another trick to providing a nice, warm, moist environment for the dough to rise. Put a bowl of HOT water into the oven. You won't even need to turn the oven on. The hot water will heat up the oven just enough and the steam coming off the hot water will add some moisture to the oven - a perfect environment for the dough!
However, you don't need to do that. If you have more time (and sometimes this is actually helpful), you can still let the dough rise in the cool home environment. It will take longer for it to double, but if you have other things to do, or errands to run, that can actually be a bonus. You can start your dough in the morning, run out and do some errands, and when you come home, you can punch down the dough. Cool rises pull more flavor from the wheat, too. YUM!!! The key is to give it sufficient rising time for it to double in size. Most recipes will give you a time estimate for that - but that is based on a relatively warm room. Letting the dough rise for a longer time period is fine, as long as you allow it to double in size.
"Leave your drugs in the chemist's pot if you can heal the patient with food."
~ Hippocrates, The Father of Western Medicine, 460 BCE. |
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dietcokenoice
1141 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2009 : 09:38:07 AM
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Often times I let my bread dough rise in the oven with only the light turned on inside. The oven is off, just the light is on giving off a bit of warmth. Works for me.
Owner of a Pro 600 called Nicky (Nicky Pearl), Pasta roller/cutter, Pro 9 hand mixer |
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sparcplug
1308 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2009 : 03:13:27 AM
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Hi chepug,
I'm glad you had success with your bread.
When you were using your original recipe, you said quote:
...the dough hook never kneaded the dough. It just left a nice indentation in the middle of the bowl.
I'm guessing your recipe wasn't big enough for the mixer bowl, and the dough hook just couldn't grab enough of it for it to actually knead/work the dough. I can't remember exactly, and I don't know if that post is still accessible here now, but someone did a "test" to see what the minimum amount of flour needed in order to get the dough hook to knead bread dough - that amount of flour was either 3 or 4 1/2 cups flour for a 5 quart mixer.
"Chance" a Nickel Pearl Re-furb Pro 600 stand mixer;
...KGMA grain mill; DVSA Slicer/Shredder;
KPRA Pasta Roller/Cutter 
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vernonbishop12
USA
1886 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2009 : 2:53:19 PM
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Congratulations Chepug on the Bread!!!
Did you take pictures???
Vernon
KSM50HDPBK Heavy Duty Plus, Imperial Black, Burnished Beater, Dough Hook; KFP715 7 cup Food Processor, Onyx Black; KSC700 7 qt slow cooker, Onyx Black; KHB100 Immersion blender, Empire Red; KICA, Towels and washcloth in various colors; Paring Knife set in Onyx Black; Reversible cutting board in Empire Red; Oven Mitts and Pot Holder in Onyx Black...
K. Ross Toole hard at work!!
for the way its made!
from a lifelong true KitchenAid lover
vernonbishop12 |
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Dough not kneaded properly
